Comments on: The war against Internet Explorer – Has the European Commission gone bananas?

By: Kevin Severud

Kevin Severud — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:28:40 +0000

It’ll be easy to get IE8 after installation: Windows Update. Thus, the EU politicians got absolutely nothing out of all their efforts to punish Microsoft and reward competitors. Instead EU costomers pay the price of this silly mandate.

By: Michael Pietroforte

Michael Pietroforte — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:27:13 +0000

Kamil, well, not all Europeans think the way the EC does. I believe that their often strange decisions are the main reason for EU skepticism. moiecoute, I think both of the motives you named play a role here. The EC is much more friendly to European monopolists. They also suffer from a inferiority complex because the real power is still in the hands of the governments. Pushing around big companies like Microsoft and Intel gives them the feeling of being more important than they really are. Jim, I don't think that it has anything to do with Internet Explorer. They are just try to find ways to hurt big companies having a monopoly. Spyd, there are many rumors about these topic and you can't always believe what you read on news sites. At the moment, I would just believe what Microsoft officially said. According their official statement there will be no minimal IE as you claimed:

Given the pending legal proceeding, we’ve decided that instead of including Internet Explorer in Windows 7 in Europe, we will offer it separately and on an easy-to-install basis to both computer manufacturers and users. This means that computer manufacturers and users will be free to install Internet Explorer on Windows 7, or not, as they prefer.

By: Spyd

Spyd — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:36:22 +0000

I’m sorry, but I can’t find the exact source, but this news imply it: http://windows7news.com/2009/06/14/more-on-windows-7-e-for-europe/

Its true that all that stripping IE and WMP from Windows is all resulting in a useless waste of money, but this is because of bureaucracy.

And the solution MS has found I think is a really good one, and it would be good to apply to all the Windows versions.

You have Internet? You pick the browser you like the icon more in the list and in a minute you’re browsing. What’s wrong with that?

Perhaps you’re using the business view. That’s bad for MS. You should use the users view: this is good for the users.

And yes, usually in the EU don’t like the MS products, and every now and then laws are created so the monopoly of MS stops growing out of proportion, like the law that has passed that overturned the proposition of using the MS Office documents as the standard format for all documentation on EU’s government offices to pick OpenDocument, an open source format. There’s also a lot of public entities that are migrating from Windows to Linux to lower expenses and to avoid the “single provider” issue.

By: Jim

Jim — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:26:04 +0000

Considering Internet browsers are free nowadays, what is the big point in all this? Is Opera going to make more money if more users install their browser “for free”? What exactly is the relevance of the EU’s Competition Law in this?

btw, even with “huge” fines, MS is still making a lot of money in the EU. Even if they gave Windows away for free they would still make a lot of money on products like Office (despite “free” OpenOffice), SQLServer (despite “free” alternatives like MySQL) and the Dynamics solutions…

By: moiecoute

moiecoute — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:31:28 +0000

Forgive me for being a cynical but I just wonder how of this is positioning by the EU to get better licensing for governments and local institutions. How much of it is driven by Anti-American sentiment or look at me I am as big you and you can’t push me around ?

The EU only has to look at what MS has done to try win favour with governments in South East Asia dropping their licensing costs to paltry levels. Yes there is an element of piracy in that but at the same time if you can do for them you can do for us.

Sorry to be the cynic

By: Kamil M

Kamil M — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:13:33 +0000

Nice writeup Michael, good thing I moved out of EU 5 years ago . I agree that MS should just pull out of Europe so that way they can use their beloved Linux (Ready for the Desktop Since 1999).

By: Michael Pietroforte

Michael Pietroforte — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:05:38 +0000

Spyd, what is the source of your information? Microsoft’s official statement says nothing about a minimal IE installation. And I don’t just seem like a MS fanboy, I am!

By: Spyd

Spyd — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:58:36 +0000

Perhaps you have to inform yourself better next time you go on a rage about things. This makes you seem like a MS fanboy.
What will MS do is put a “minimal” IE installation in the “E” versions of Windows 7, that will allow you to download any browser.
While having to download the browser after installation is a bit annoying, I think that having the option to choose is better than having IE shoved in.

By: Michael Pietroforte

Michael Pietroforte — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:49:25 +0000

???, I guess the EC wouldn’t be so courageous if Microsoft were an European company.

epiquestions, I think it will be possible to uninstall IE in Windows 7. How else could they offer an European version without IE?

By: epiquestions

epiquestions — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:18:30 +0000

I wish MS would allow the user to uninstall it completely and not tie it up to the OS. I mean wasn’t VISTA(UAC in particular) supposed to teach/force the software developers to create software for VISTA that does not interfere with or is in a different layer than the System to make the OS more secure?

But then again you can just ignore IE and not use it. No harm done. I mean why would you get angry for a free bundled software? You should be glad that you are getting more for your money. Just don’t use it.

By: ???

??? — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:39:58 +0000

A lot of ISPs filter their ports and don’t allow FTP traffic. How you’re gonna dload a browser. What, there will be wget dloader included with links to each possible browser? at least 2/3 of users will choose IE. It’s a decent browser, it’s supported by the creator of the OS and it consumes less resources than any other.
Firefox 1.x was a good browser, compared to IE6. Now it’s a resource hog, soncuming insanely lot of resources for a web browser, with memorxy leaks all over the place. When you try Opera, you get a feeling it’s been built by a bunch of technically competent people, but who seems did not listen to customers, so the result is a browser that you get tired of using.
What’s so hard in insluding IE and letting anyone download any other browser? We have come to the edge of Windows usability with this, we don’t have neiter music player nor browser in EU versions! A Windows box, after install, is unusable, you can’t listen to music nor surf web! What about apple, they insluce their own apps for every thing users might want to do.
This is an example of a principle gone worng, turning against consumers instead of protecting them. Looks like they are against a US company, trying to make more kony off them, than fighting for consumers.

By: Michael Pietroforte

Michael Pietroforte — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:34:20 +0000

Adam, I agree. I think if Microsoft will be forced to offer other browsers, then there soon would be quite a few new browser manufacturers considering that there is good Open Source code available.

Chand, as things stand now, they can’t. They have to download IE first via FTP or install IE or another browser from DVD. I somehow think that this won’t be the final word.

youedcute, I wonder if Apple will also be forced to offer the IE on the iPhone. More competition wouldn’t be too bad here

lothar, seems you didn’t need the EC to make your choice. Btw., I am using Firefox myself.

By: lothar

lothar — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:33:10 +0000

I think that EC was right. I am using Firefox 99% of time and bundling IE with Windows get me angry…
And what is much worse – IE cannot be uninstalled

By: yoedcute

yoedcute — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 06:14:05 +0000

still safari for my imac and vista

By: Chand

Chand — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:53:10 +0000

I agree with everything you said. However, I do pose one question. Being the tech guy for my family and friends (mostly after the damage has been done, and warnings ignored), I have fixed and coaxed life out of several mishaps including a severly botched installation. If in the European version of Windows 7 IE is NOT installed, how will the people who do a clean install without understanding that Internet Explorer is not available to them download and install Chome, Firefox, or Safari?

Or is this thought just nonsensical?

By: Adam Ruth

Adam Ruth — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:12:45 +0000

I think that this just goes to show that “anti-trust” is just one more way for entrenched companies to further entrench themselves at the expense of the consumer. Providing a selection of browsers at install time does increase competition, but it also limits it. What about browsers that are excluded from the list?

Anti-trust is not about preventing monopoly, but about promoting oligarchy. Which is worse from a consumer point of view.

By: Michael Pietroforte

Michael Pietroforte — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:29:56 +0000

daniel,

1 No
2 The fundamental role of an OS is to provide an interface between hardware, applications and the user. Yes, the Internet Explorer is part of the OS, just like Windows Explorer.
3 Yes, we need to control all companies, big ones, small ones and those who control the flow of knowledge.
4 Because a browser is a fundamental part of a modern OS. Some (for example Google) even believe that in the future the browser will be the only part.

By: daniel

daniel — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:17:30 +0000

Just a few things to think about:

1 Can you really compare a BMW with an Operating System in terms of knowledge management?
2 What is the fundamental role of an OS? Is IE part of the OS or is it an application?
3 Do we need to control big companies which tend to control the flow of knowledge?
3 Why has MS tied IE so close to the OS? (leads to 3)

Regards,

daniel

By: Michael Pietroforte

Michael Pietroforte — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:28:31 +0000

Ilija, thanks!

Thomas, seems we agree about most issues this time.

By: Thomas

Thomas — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:12:02 +0000

Here is my opinion on this bizarre matter (in German, though)...